1 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:02,929 we just had a new name get attributed to 2 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:04,970 us and it was it's called the Jedi 3 00:00:12,999 --> 00:00:08,610 Masters of launcher II program chief 4 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:13,009 engineer verify no constraints belong to 5 00:00:24,679 --> 00:00:22,650 for over 20 years NASA's launch services 6 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:24,689 program has been the workhorse of 7 00:00:29,179 --> 00:00:26,730 uncrewed Space Flight enabling 8 00:00:32,269 --> 00:00:29,189 exploration of Pluto the Sun the earth 9 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:32,279 and other worlds next on the rocket 10 00:00:37,069 --> 00:00:34,530 range all right I am here in the booth 11 00:00:41,530 --> 00:00:37,079 now with Amanda correct if I get this 12 00:00:43,910 --> 00:00:41,540 wrong I'm sorry MIT's kovitch I'm sorry 13 00:00:47,450 --> 00:00:43,920 and Chuck Duvall 14 00:00:50,389 --> 00:00:47,460 so Amanda truck thanks for joining me 15 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:50,399 so Amanda you are the the title is 16 00:00:54,170 --> 00:00:52,050 manager for the launch services program 17 00:00:56,959 --> 00:00:54,180 is that correct it depends on what piece 18 00:00:58,160 --> 00:00:56,969 of paper you look at I'd say program 19 00:01:00,410 --> 00:00:58,170 manager of the NASA launch services 20 00:01:04,700 --> 00:01:00,420 program or director of launch services 21 00:01:07,429 --> 00:01:04,710 or it's been many things okay and then 22 00:01:09,679 --> 00:01:07,439 Chuck your specific role is deputy 23 00:01:11,630 --> 00:01:09,689 program manager or number two number two 24 00:01:14,330 --> 00:01:11,640 I've heard that's your name I've also 25 00:01:16,820 --> 00:01:14,340 heard a man if somebody told me I think 26 00:01:19,310 --> 00:01:16,830 the story goes that you stole Chuck's 27 00:01:21,020 --> 00:01:19,320 desk at some point is that is that an 28 00:01:24,740 --> 00:01:21,030 accurate telling of the story not just 29 00:01:27,770 --> 00:01:24,750 my desk the whole office know I was 30 00:01:30,020 --> 00:01:27,780 given his desk by the boss cuz he was 31 00:01:32,630 --> 00:01:30,030 gone for several months and I didn't 32 00:01:35,090 --> 00:01:32,640 have nowhere to sit so I got his desk 33 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:35,100 she didn't turn out so it started yeah I 34 00:01:38,060 --> 00:01:36,450 didn't turn it down right it was a hole 35 00:01:40,039 --> 00:01:38,070 so here I was coming over there to this 36 00:01:41,510 --> 00:01:40,049 new job thinking I was gonna be in some 37 00:01:43,340 --> 00:01:41,520 little cubicle and I get this great big 38 00:01:45,020 --> 00:01:43,350 office of a branch chief I'm like this 39 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:45,030 is great I'll take it 40 00:01:49,730 --> 00:01:46,890 I was on a source port I came back and 41 00:01:52,399 --> 00:01:49,740 my doors open I was like oh that's like 42 00:01:55,690 --> 00:01:52,409 oh there's somebody every logo says hey 43 00:01:58,179 --> 00:01:55,700 here's nowhere I gave you the office do 44 00:02:00,620 --> 00:01:58,189 so should I find another job 45 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:00,630 alright so it's pretty obvious that you 46 00:02:04,850 --> 00:02:03,210 to go a good ways back so let's kind of 47 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:04,860 walk back if you would each kind of just 48 00:02:08,449 --> 00:02:06,450 tell me a little bit about kind of how 49 00:02:10,580 --> 00:02:08,459 you got to where you are today cuz you 50 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:10,590 have a pretty cool job but it didn't it 51 00:02:13,710 --> 00:02:12,130 what you didn't get there overnight 52 00:02:16,590 --> 00:02:13,720 now you want to start you want me to 53 00:02:19,110 --> 00:02:16,600 start you can start me start okay let's 54 00:02:21,210 --> 00:02:19,120 see so I started out there how long do 55 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:21,220 you want me to go back here let's go 56 00:02:24,690 --> 00:02:23,170 with like what's your degree two hours 57 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:24,700 worth or out there yeah I'm not quite 58 00:02:28,590 --> 00:02:26,050 that well okay not that long 59 00:02:30,570 --> 00:02:28,600 so I graduated from Georgia Tech a long 60 00:02:31,770 --> 00:02:30,580 time ago I won't say what you're with an 61 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:31,780 industrial engineering degree which is 62 00:02:35,850 --> 00:02:33,970 way different than what most people at 63 00:02:38,700 --> 00:02:35,860 the Space Center have or had at the time 64 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:38,710 and I started in shuttle in logistics 65 00:02:43,860 --> 00:02:42,010 actually and I went from logistics after 66 00:02:46,350 --> 00:02:43,870 about five years in logistics um I got 67 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:46,360 my masters at UCF and engineering gonna 68 00:02:50,850 --> 00:02:48,130 instrument yeah go nights yeah go 69 00:02:52,530 --> 00:02:50,860 jackets I should have said that and so I 70 00:02:54,510 --> 00:02:52,540 got that degree and then I went to 71 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:54,520 shuttle operations where we started up 72 00:02:58,620 --> 00:02:56,290 an industrial engineering group that was 73 00:03:02,670 --> 00:02:58,630 helping improve shuttle ops and then 74 00:03:04,650 --> 00:03:02,680 from there I went to be an intern on the 75 00:03:05,910 --> 00:03:04,660 fourth floor at that well it was a 76 00:03:07,470 --> 00:03:05,920 fourth floor at that time it's a seventh 77 00:03:11,490 --> 00:03:07,480 floor now yeah that's our executive 78 00:03:13,170 --> 00:03:11,500 suite exactly executive suite so I went 79 00:03:15,090 --> 00:03:13,180 up there to be the intern - Roy bridges 80 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:15,100 who was a newly appointed center 81 00:03:20,550 --> 00:03:17,530 director at the time and while I was 82 00:03:22,590 --> 00:03:20,560 interning up there the program launch 83 00:03:25,350 --> 00:03:22,600 services program was transitioned down 84 00:03:28,290 --> 00:03:25,360 to Kennedy from Goddard and at that time 85 00:03:30,900 --> 00:03:28,300 Louis now Glenn and partially Marshall 86 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:30,910 so transition during that time and when 87 00:03:34,710 --> 00:03:32,530 I finished my internship I went over - 88 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:34,720 it wasn't called LSP then it was called 89 00:03:39,390 --> 00:03:36,610 expendable launch vehicles I think was 90 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:39,400 that right yeah elby's so I went over 91 00:03:43,830 --> 00:03:41,170 there which was a I didn't even know 92 00:03:45,390 --> 00:03:43,840 that there was anything other than 93 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:45,400 shuttle when you were on the shuttle 94 00:03:49,170 --> 00:03:47,290 program human spaceflight pretty much 95 00:03:50,940 --> 00:03:49,180 everything is all about Johnson and 96 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:50,950 Marshall and Kennedy and you didn't even 97 00:03:54,270 --> 00:03:52,210 know there were science missions just 98 00:03:55,500 --> 00:03:54,280 said there's other launches on the Cape 99 00:03:58,080 --> 00:03:55,510 side and I thought the best kept secret 100 00:03:59,400 --> 00:03:58,090 over there yeah like nobody even knew 101 00:04:01,230 --> 00:03:59,410 about it on the kennedy side and I 102 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:01,240 thought I thought well I'll try it but 103 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:02,770 I've no idea what I'm doing I was ray 104 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:04,690 Lugo who convinced me to go over there 105 00:04:10,140 --> 00:04:08,050 he was quite the recruiter so I went 106 00:04:11,340 --> 00:04:10,150 over to to there and I helped transition 107 00:04:14,190 --> 00:04:11,350 the program writing a bunch of the 108 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:14,200 documentation helping work with Goddard 109 00:04:18,900 --> 00:04:16,570 moving things down to Kennedy and then 110 00:04:20,190 --> 00:04:18,910 after that I became a mission manager 111 00:04:22,650 --> 00:04:20,200 where I got to work on some really neat 112 00:04:24,990 --> 00:04:22,660 missions leading a mission team and then 113 00:04:25,950 --> 00:04:25,000 from there I went to be the chief of 114 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:25,960 that office 115 00:04:29,939 --> 00:04:27,970 and then from there I went to be the 116 00:04:32,309 --> 00:04:29,949 deputy program manager number two - 117 00:04:33,870 --> 00:04:32,319 Steve Francois and then I became program 118 00:04:35,820 --> 00:04:33,880 manager after that it was a path that 119 00:04:38,309 --> 00:04:35,830 was a crooked path a straight a 120 00:04:40,350 --> 00:04:38,319 roundabout way but yeah I have a great 121 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:40,360 job now it's really a lot of fun yeah 122 00:04:43,469 --> 00:04:41,770 we'll come back - what exactly does you 123 00:04:43,830 --> 00:04:43,479 do these days in just a minute but check 124 00:04:46,230 --> 00:04:43,840 on him 125 00:04:48,870 --> 00:04:46,240 [Music] 126 00:04:51,749 --> 00:04:48,880 mine's a little bit straighter path I I 127 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:51,759 started out as a summer student at the 128 00:04:56,070 --> 00:04:53,410 Space Center until I could get some 129 00:04:57,300 --> 00:04:56,080 engineering courses at the local 130 00:04:59,279 --> 00:04:57,310 community college Brevard Community 131 00:05:03,300 --> 00:04:59,289 College at the time and then I went on 132 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:03,310 to UCF go night there you go but I was 133 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:05,289 in the I got to be in the co-op program 134 00:05:08,850 --> 00:05:06,970 so I would go to school for a semester 135 00:05:10,290 --> 00:05:08,860 and then I'd work for a semester it's 136 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:10,300 now called pathways for those that might 137 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:12,849 be interested right so in 1984 I got a 138 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:16,770 call if I wanted to go work in the e lv 139 00:05:23,010 --> 00:05:20,289 project in the telemetry lab of hangar 140 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:23,020 AE and I said sir certainly especially 141 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:32,370 yeah that's me so I've been in LV ever 142 00:05:37,170 --> 00:05:35,050 since and you know yo Vegas probably 143 00:05:39,990 --> 00:05:37,180 changed its names three or four times in 144 00:05:42,950 --> 00:05:40,000 the duration I've been there so I 145 00:05:45,029 --> 00:05:42,960 started as a co-op student finally 146 00:05:47,189 --> 00:05:45,039 graduated you know it was a little bit 147 00:05:50,219 --> 00:05:47,199 lengthened because of being in the co-op 148 00:05:53,490 --> 00:05:50,229 program but I became full-time in 1989 149 00:05:56,339 --> 00:05:53,500 and worked missions you know from day 150 00:05:59,070 --> 00:05:56,349 one and just loved the diversity of all 151 00:06:01,469 --> 00:05:59,080 the different missions and projects and 152 00:06:04,350 --> 00:06:01,479 partners that we worked with and being 153 00:06:06,540 --> 00:06:04,360 off the radar like Amanda had said we 154 00:06:11,879 --> 00:06:06,550 were a small group back then and only 155 00:06:14,219 --> 00:06:11,889 did launch and then so I was working for 156 00:06:17,879 --> 00:06:14,229 about 10 years before the program 157 00:06:20,159 --> 00:06:17,889 started to transition which was quite 158 00:06:22,860 --> 00:06:20,169 the step for us because we only knew the 159 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:22,870 last three or four months of the entire 160 00:06:27,270 --> 00:06:25,210 mission flow all we did was launch right 161 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:27,280 and we didn't fully understand what 162 00:06:32,159 --> 00:06:30,490 Lewis and Goddard were doing four years 163 00:06:34,019 --> 00:06:32,169 prior to that we just knew they weren't 164 00:06:36,180 --> 00:06:34,029 brought us their satellites and we 165 00:06:38,490 --> 00:06:36,190 launched them for them so it was a big 166 00:06:40,770 --> 00:06:38,500 step to get the entire program I know 167 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:40,780 being part of that group we weren't 168 00:06:46,980 --> 00:06:42,970 really sure if we were equipped to do 169 00:06:50,490 --> 00:06:46,990 that but Rea you know had the foresight 170 00:06:54,140 --> 00:06:50,500 and as well as a few other folks at 171 00:06:59,130 --> 00:06:54,150 headquarters that led the transition and 172 00:07:01,110 --> 00:06:59,140 you know we since have become LSP we 173 00:07:04,140 --> 00:07:01,120 obviously recruited good people from 174 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:04,150 Kennedy and Lewis and Goddard to form 175 00:07:09,630 --> 00:07:06,490 you know what's what's been the nucleus 176 00:07:14,490 --> 00:07:09,640 of LSP so it's been a you know a great 177 00:07:16,710 --> 00:07:14,500 run since I I you know started as a 178 00:07:19,530 --> 00:07:16,720 systems engineer I became a branch chief 179 00:07:22,290 --> 00:07:19,540 branch chief of the avionics group I had 180 00:07:24,510 --> 00:07:22,300 the opportunity to become or shadow the 181 00:07:26,610 --> 00:07:24,520 launch director position and then became 182 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:26,620 a launch director and then senior launch 183 00:07:31,470 --> 00:07:28,210 director for ten years which I always 184 00:07:35,270 --> 00:07:31,480 say that's been and is the best job in 185 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:35,280 LSP if not the entire agency and then 186 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:37,690 and then for whatever reason I'm not 187 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:39,730 quite sure oh it's almost 10 years now I 188 00:07:48,270 --> 00:07:42,610 left the launch director position to go 189 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:48,280 to the front office so yes I paved the 190 00:07:53,490 --> 00:07:49,690 way for Tim done to him if you're 191 00:07:57,930 --> 00:07:53,500 listening in a while since you thanked 192 00:07:58,920 --> 00:07:57,940 me for getting out of your way so that's 193 00:08:02,550 --> 00:07:58,930 an interesting idea 194 00:08:04,950 --> 00:08:02,560 the idea of of rising up to get out of 195 00:08:06,300 --> 00:08:04,960 someone's away is that is that something 196 00:08:09,870 --> 00:08:06,310 that you say or is that something that 197 00:08:14,010 --> 00:08:09,880 is really meaningful that's an 198 00:08:15,750 --> 00:08:14,020 interesting question because when I was 199 00:08:18,719 --> 00:08:15,760 the mission management branch chief or 200 00:08:20,430 --> 00:08:18,729 office chief that's when ray Lugo had an 201 00:08:22,350 --> 00:08:20,440 opportunity to go to Glenn Research 202 00:08:24,060 --> 00:08:22,360 Center and I think be deputy center 203 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:24,070 director there and they talked to a 204 00:08:28,409 --> 00:08:26,290 bunch of us about applying for his 205 00:08:30,030 --> 00:08:28,419 position because they wanted to be able 206 00:08:33,810 --> 00:08:30,040 to get someone from LSP to be in that 207 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:33,820 job and so I don't think any of us 208 00:08:38,219 --> 00:08:35,890 really wanted to leave the jobs we had 209 00:08:40,110 --> 00:08:38,229 because we really liked him but for me 210 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:40,120 personally I got to thinking about well 211 00:08:46,380 --> 00:08:44,050 I'm in this job that is supervising a 212 00:08:48,270 --> 00:08:46,390 bunch of mission managers who are 213 00:08:50,190 --> 00:08:48,280 looking at the mission teams launching 214 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:50,200 all these spacecraft and if I'm not 215 00:08:52,150 --> 00:08:51,730 willing to take the next step forward 216 00:08:54,310 --> 00:08:52,160 then 217 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:54,320 I probably need to find a way to step 218 00:08:59,740 --> 00:08:57,170 aside so that somebody else can have my 219 00:09:01,600 --> 00:08:59,750 job because probably it would make sense 220 00:09:04,450 --> 00:09:01,610 for me to try and help the organization 221 00:09:07,150 --> 00:09:04,460 at another level I never envisioned 222 00:09:09,820 --> 00:09:07,160 doing that and I think it took a lot of 223 00:09:12,730 --> 00:09:09,830 pressure from Ray at the time to get any 224 00:09:15,310 --> 00:09:12,740 of us to apply for that but it was kind 225 00:09:17,230 --> 00:09:15,320 of a feeling of I probably need to find 226 00:09:19,690 --> 00:09:17,240 a way to let other people come up 227 00:09:19,870 --> 00:09:19,700 through the program it was the same for 228 00:09:22,780 --> 00:09:19,880 me 229 00:09:25,180 --> 00:09:22,790 it was a factor that played into it it 230 00:09:27,730 --> 00:09:25,190 was a tough decision for me because I I 231 00:09:29,590 --> 00:09:27,740 truly loved the job I was in and I felt 232 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:29,600 like I was I was good at it you know 233 00:09:33,700 --> 00:09:32,450 when you're asked to go to the next 234 00:09:35,350 --> 00:09:33,710 level you know you have some doubts 235 00:09:37,540 --> 00:09:35,360 whether or not you can do that and the 236 00:09:39,850 --> 00:09:37,550 safe thing to do is to stay where you're 237 00:09:42,100 --> 00:09:39,860 at where you know you're successful but 238 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:42,110 part of it was and I didn't know it was 239 00:09:46,540 --> 00:09:45,050 Tim at the time was to really you know 240 00:09:48,130 --> 00:09:46,550 get out of the way of somebody else I 241 00:09:50,050 --> 00:09:48,140 may have been holding someone back 242 00:09:52,870 --> 00:09:50,060 because I'd been in that position for 10 243 00:09:56,470 --> 00:09:52,880 years so it because of that and other 244 00:09:58,930 --> 00:09:56,480 factors it was time to move on and it is 245 00:10:00,520 --> 00:09:58,940 gratifying to see how great Tim is in 246 00:10:02,940 --> 00:10:00,530 that job and it makes me feel good that 247 00:10:05,290 --> 00:10:02,950 I you know I joke about it's the one 248 00:10:07,810 --> 00:10:05,300 selfless thing I've I've done 249 00:10:10,180 --> 00:10:07,820 he's like either way to let Tim shine 250 00:10:12,250 --> 00:10:10,190 yeah I would say the same about Albert 251 00:10:13,810 --> 00:10:12,260 moving into the job that I had he's done 252 00:10:15,970 --> 00:10:13,820 a way better job than I ever did in that 253 00:10:17,650 --> 00:10:15,980 position and he's excellent at it so if 254 00:10:19,810 --> 00:10:17,660 you give other people opportunities then 255 00:10:21,100 --> 00:10:19,820 they definitely excel yeah it's awesome 256 00:10:23,110 --> 00:10:21,110 and part of the reason why I asked that 257 00:10:24,790 --> 00:10:23,120 question of you both is because your 258 00:10:26,170 --> 00:10:24,800 effort ate your reputation is pretty 259 00:10:27,220 --> 00:10:26,180 sturdy when it comes to being good 260 00:10:29,410 --> 00:10:27,230 leaders and I think that that's 261 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:29,420 something that can be overlooked there's 262 00:10:32,170 --> 00:10:30,770 almost it looks like you're climbing 263 00:10:33,730 --> 00:10:32,180 ladder but I think that there's more to 264 00:10:34,990 --> 00:10:33,740 it than that and I think that your 265 00:10:37,500 --> 00:10:35,000 answers speak to that so I appreciate 266 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:37,510 that and obviously you're kind of 267 00:10:42,580 --> 00:10:40,730 carrying the baton of a program with a 268 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:42,590 pretty excellent 20 plus year history 269 00:10:49,090 --> 00:10:46,730 now so give us kind of a really high 270 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:49,100 level here's what LSP does and here's 271 00:10:53,980 --> 00:10:51,850 what we've done for 20 years 272 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:53,990 mmm so I'd go back to your opening 273 00:10:59,320 --> 00:10:56,930 statement you said they've been 274 00:11:01,840 --> 00:10:59,330 launching rocket uncrewed rockets 275 00:11:03,790 --> 00:11:01,850 opening we would rather you said we've 276 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:03,800 been launching robotic spacecraft for 277 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:05,930 the agency for 20 years because 278 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:07,610 we don't want to be seen as a secondary 279 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:09,170 to the human spaceflight and be called 280 00:11:15,300 --> 00:11:12,050 uncute uncrewed right so so my apologies 281 00:11:17,620 --> 00:11:15,310 no no sir certainly a fair point and uh 282 00:11:19,090 --> 00:11:17,630 your reputation the reputation of the 283 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:19,100 program is very strong as well so I 284 00:11:22,780 --> 00:11:21,170 don't want to create the impression with 285 00:11:26,890 --> 00:11:22,790 anybody that they're second class 286 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:26,900 exactly I know yeah absolutely so for me 287 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:31,130 the program is about finding a way to 288 00:11:34,900 --> 00:11:33,170 find the right rocket that matches up 289 00:11:36,670 --> 00:11:34,910 with the right satellite for the right 290 00:11:39,490 --> 00:11:36,680 place to get them where they need to go 291 00:11:42,490 --> 00:11:39,500 and we are we have spent 20 years 292 00:11:44,530 --> 00:11:42,500 building up expertise and all kinds of 293 00:11:46,330 --> 00:11:44,540 disciplines in business disciplines and 294 00:11:48,430 --> 00:11:46,340 technical disciplines rocket science 295 00:11:50,650 --> 00:11:48,440 disciplines everything across the board 296 00:11:52,750 --> 00:11:50,660 customer service in order to be able to 297 00:11:55,390 --> 00:11:52,760 make that happen and so I think a 298 00:11:56,770 --> 00:11:55,400 reputation now with our main customers 299 00:11:58,600 --> 00:11:56,780 who are science Mission Directorate is 300 00:12:00,340 --> 00:11:58,610 that we do what we say we're going to do 301 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:00,350 and then we help them find the right to 302 00:12:06,100 --> 00:12:03,650 get to orbit I'll give one to Harding a 303 00:12:08,530 --> 00:12:06,110 shout out cuz she's the one that came up 304 00:12:11,620 --> 00:12:08,540 with the that we were right we are 305 00:12:13,540 --> 00:12:11,630 Earth's bridge to space so we are truly 306 00:12:16,380 --> 00:12:13,550 serving our customers who need to get 307 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:16,390 you know either to another solar system 308 00:12:26,350 --> 00:12:22,970 planet Earth orbiting and we're equipped 309 00:12:31,410 --> 00:12:26,360 in a lot of ways to make that journey 310 00:12:37,300 --> 00:12:31,420 for them you know more successful easier 311 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:37,310 just you know a better experience all 312 00:12:45,340 --> 00:12:42,410 around for them so so I was going to say 313 00:12:47,370 --> 00:12:45,350 we just had a new name get attributed to 314 00:12:50,050 --> 00:12:47,380 us and it was it's called the Jedi 315 00:12:51,310 --> 00:12:50,060 Masters of launcher II we thought that 316 00:12:52,930 --> 00:12:51,320 was really cool that was from somebody 317 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:52,940 totally not associated with the space 318 00:13:01,260 --> 00:12:54,890 program that was giving us a leadership 319 00:13:06,580 --> 00:13:04,180 so as you as you think about carrying 320 00:13:09,310 --> 00:13:06,590 the baton now what do you view your 321 00:13:10,750 --> 00:13:09,320 roles as because obviously you kind of 322 00:13:12,940 --> 00:13:10,760 have both whether through a straight 323 00:13:15,580 --> 00:13:12,950 path or a more crooked one have come up 324 00:13:17,260 --> 00:13:15,590 through the program where you were more 325 00:13:19,750 --> 00:13:17,270 in the weeds on specific things so at 326 00:13:22,270 --> 00:13:19,760 this high level of director or manager 327 00:13:25,870 --> 00:13:22,280 and number two now what do you do 328 00:13:28,780 --> 00:13:25,880 functionally hmm let's see 329 00:13:31,150 --> 00:13:28,790 it doesn't really fall into one clean 330 00:13:34,210 --> 00:13:31,160 bucket of things that we do I think what 331 00:13:36,220 --> 00:13:34,220 we what we try to do is is work with the 332 00:13:40,150 --> 00:13:36,230 entire team to set a vision for where we 333 00:13:42,100 --> 00:13:40,160 went ahead and then get out of the way 334 00:13:43,690 --> 00:13:42,110 that's exactly right so you know our our 335 00:13:45,010 --> 00:13:43,700 goal really should be to work like six 336 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:45,020 hours a day or something cuz everybody 337 00:13:48,220 --> 00:13:46,730 else everybody else knows what they're 338 00:13:51,790 --> 00:13:48,230 suppose to do and they do all the work 339 00:13:53,530 --> 00:13:51,800 for us I think we would clear the way a 340 00:13:56,230 --> 00:13:53,540 lot of times for folks to be able to do 341 00:13:58,360 --> 00:13:56,240 their job we do a lot of the high-level 342 00:14:00,700 --> 00:13:58,370 interfacing to make sure that people 343 00:14:02,410 --> 00:14:00,710 understand what we do and we always seem 344 00:14:03,910 --> 00:14:02,420 to be struggling with what is launch 345 00:14:06,820 --> 00:14:03,920 services like the question you ask what 346 00:14:09,190 --> 00:14:06,830 do you guys even do on a day to day 347 00:14:11,140 --> 00:14:09,200 basis though it's it's really hard too 348 00:14:12,820 --> 00:14:11,150 hard to say what you do right you're 349 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:12,830 solving problems and people have 350 00:14:17,710 --> 00:14:15,050 questions or wandering by 351 00:14:19,140 --> 00:14:17,720 we're big proponents of being in the 352 00:14:21,730 --> 00:14:19,150 office and being accessible to people 353 00:14:23,950 --> 00:14:21,740 anybody can come by and ask questions 354 00:14:26,190 --> 00:14:23,960 and we'll talk with them about about any 355 00:14:29,500 --> 00:14:26,200 of their issues that they have going on 356 00:14:31,660 --> 00:14:29,510 most things the calendars full right 357 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:31,670 right but there are other days where 358 00:14:35,950 --> 00:14:34,250 it's not full and we're certainly not 359 00:14:39,670 --> 00:14:35,960 sitting around I mean there's there's a 360 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:39,680 lot of drive-bys as as we call them but 361 00:14:44,020 --> 00:14:42,050 there's a lot of there's a lot of new 362 00:14:47,020 --> 00:14:44,030 work and different work than what's 363 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:47,030 there what was there 20 or even 10 years 364 00:14:54,070 --> 00:14:50,810 ago in the program which was we were you 365 00:14:57,010 --> 00:14:54,080 know responsible for one mission end to 366 00:14:59,320 --> 00:14:57,020 end to get that satellite in orbit we've 367 00:15:02,020 --> 00:14:59,330 we've grown so much in our expertise 368 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:02,030 that were asked by a lot of different 369 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:04,250 parts of the agency to do different 370 00:15:10,900 --> 00:15:06,890 things so we have a whole advisory role 371 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:10,910 that we play and that could be with the 372 00:15:15,430 --> 00:15:12,770 CRS program or it could be with an 373 00:15:18,220 --> 00:15:15,440 international partner that's working 374 00:15:20,860 --> 00:15:18,230 through Goddard let's say and some of it 375 00:15:23,380 --> 00:15:20,870 is one or two people are working on that 376 00:15:26,350 --> 00:15:23,390 project or 10 or 12 or working on it and 377 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:26,360 then we've got 40 on a primary mission 378 00:15:32,500 --> 00:15:29,450 so there's such a variety now than when 379 00:15:33,340 --> 00:15:32,510 the program started that every day is 380 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:33,350 different 381 00:15:38,230 --> 00:15:35,810 can you give me kind of a feeling so two 382 00:15:39,700 --> 00:15:38,240 things obviously Chuck you mentioned the 383 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:39,710 team used to be a lot smaller than it is 384 00:15:42,700 --> 00:15:40,010 today 385 00:15:44,770 --> 00:15:42,710 so how big is your whole team and kind 386 00:15:47,950 --> 00:15:44,780 of talk me through what's the process 387 00:15:51,490 --> 00:15:47,960 look like from when a mission hits your 388 00:15:52,870 --> 00:15:51,500 radar to launch and and I guess beyond 389 00:15:56,730 --> 00:15:52,880 that if you guys have a responsibility 390 00:16:03,940 --> 00:15:56,740 beyond launch so civil servants we have 391 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:03,950 matrix not just and that's across every 392 00:16:09,460 --> 00:16:07,130 element public affairs contracts 393 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:09,470 resources procurement engineering 394 00:16:16,030 --> 00:16:12,370 engineering and then about 200 insurance 395 00:16:18,910 --> 00:16:16,040 contractor so about 450 total and know 396 00:16:21,010 --> 00:16:18,920 we were up we really operate badgeless 397 00:16:22,390 --> 00:16:21,020 so when you ask the question about how 398 00:16:23,950 --> 00:16:22,400 many civil servants are we have to stop 399 00:16:25,570 --> 00:16:23,960 for a second and think okay I know 400 00:16:27,070 --> 00:16:25,580 there's 450 people in the program so you 401 00:16:29,020 --> 00:16:27,080 subtract I think there's about 200 on 402 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:29,030 contract so we got about 250 civil 403 00:16:35,290 --> 00:16:32,450 service doesn't you know and then we 404 00:16:39,010 --> 00:16:35,300 have up to right now we have over 70 405 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:39,020 missions that are being processed so 450 406 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:42,170 might sound a lot a lot to that's some 407 00:16:46,330 --> 00:16:45,050 of your missions right 70 like so not 408 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:46,340 kind of everything you've done icon 409 00:16:51,970 --> 00:16:48,290 forward although all the ones that are 410 00:16:55,210 --> 00:16:51,980 yet to launch so that's that's a lot and 411 00:16:56,980 --> 00:16:55,220 it and it like I said it varies from you 412 00:16:58,870 --> 00:16:56,990 know it's a four to seven year process 413 00:17:01,390 --> 00:16:58,880 and we've been in on the ground floor 414 00:17:04,630 --> 00:17:01,400 all the way through post launch and 415 00:17:08,050 --> 00:17:04,640 making sure you know even after it's 416 00:17:12,030 --> 00:17:08,060 separated that it's a success to just a 417 00:17:14,199 --> 00:17:12,040 couple of people supporting JWST across 418 00:17:17,740 --> 00:17:14,209 across the pond because they've been 419 00:17:20,189 --> 00:17:17,750 asked by Goddard for some expertise or 420 00:17:24,370 --> 00:17:20,199 just sitting on a on a review and and 421 00:17:25,990 --> 00:17:24,380 lend an ear just to see if does include 422 00:17:28,179 --> 00:17:26,000 the CubeSat so right so if you add 423 00:17:29,860 --> 00:17:28,189 probably have 45 cube sets waiting to be 424 00:17:31,990 --> 00:17:29,870 manifested and there's about 40 that are 425 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:32,000 on the manifest to fly so there's a good 426 00:17:35,890 --> 00:17:34,610 yeah all right so now let me ask you to 427 00:17:37,210 --> 00:17:35,900 go ahead and of dive in like so what's 428 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:37,220 the process look like cuz obviously 429 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:39,290 we're not talking about 70 missions 430 00:17:43,180 --> 00:17:41,330 flying next year right so there's a long 431 00:17:44,170 --> 00:17:43,190 process a long lead time here so from 432 00:17:46,090 --> 00:17:44,180 start to finish 433 00:17:47,290 --> 00:17:46,100 LSP and and we kind of have to 434 00:17:48,730 --> 00:17:47,300 generalize here because an 435 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:48,740 some missions are different than others 436 00:17:52,630 --> 00:17:50,330 there's the huge sets there's advisory 437 00:17:55,330 --> 00:17:52,640 so sure full-fledged nasa's science 438 00:17:59,320 --> 00:17:55,340 mission okay what's that look like start 439 00:18:00,880 --> 00:17:59,330 to finish okay so like March 2020 I'm 440 00:18:02,770 --> 00:18:00,890 really excited for you guys it's another 441 00:18:05,050 --> 00:18:02,780 rover similar to curiosity's a 442 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:05,060 helicopter on it with a helicopter on 443 00:18:11,140 --> 00:18:09,650 board yes so the process I'll I'll go 444 00:18:11,590 --> 00:18:11,150 through and you just jump in if you 445 00:18:13,630 --> 00:18:11,600 don't mind 446 00:18:15,460 --> 00:18:13,640 so that I don't keep it too boring so um 447 00:18:18,190 --> 00:18:15,470 so we'll meet because I'm an industrial 448 00:18:20,910 --> 00:18:18,200 engineer it's got to be processors so so 449 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:20,920 early on there's a science concepts that 450 00:18:24,430 --> 00:18:22,970 science Mission Directorate works with 451 00:18:26,110 --> 00:18:24,440 the Cadle surveys and they figure out 452 00:18:28,330 --> 00:18:26,120 what do we want to achieve in the next 453 00:18:30,490 --> 00:18:28,340 decade for certain types of science and 454 00:18:31,870 --> 00:18:30,500 so they decide what the science is then 455 00:18:33,340 --> 00:18:31,880 they put out usually put out an 456 00:18:35,070 --> 00:18:33,350 announcement of opportunity that says 457 00:18:38,290 --> 00:18:35,080 hey we have the science we want to do 458 00:18:40,630 --> 00:18:38,300 bid to it and so people come in they bid 459 00:18:43,630 --> 00:18:40,640 to it and during that process is when we 460 00:18:45,460 --> 00:18:43,640 we start so we provide an assessment of 461 00:18:47,170 --> 00:18:45,470 what launch vehicles might be in the 462 00:18:49,330 --> 00:18:47,180 market at the time that these spacecraft 463 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:49,340 are going to fly this is like it could 464 00:18:53,380 --> 00:18:51,290 be five to eight years before they're 465 00:18:54,730 --> 00:18:53,390 gonna launch so this is a process way in 466 00:18:56,740 --> 00:18:54,740 advance and if you think about our 467 00:18:57,910 --> 00:18:56,750 current launch vehicle market we don't 468 00:18:59,470 --> 00:18:57,920 really even know what's going to be 469 00:19:02,410 --> 00:18:59,480 flying in five years right now right 470 00:19:04,260 --> 00:19:02,420 yeah crazy time right now right exactly 471 00:19:07,300 --> 00:19:04,270 you know we just finished Delta two 472 00:19:08,890 --> 00:19:07,310 Atlas five is on its way out for Vulcan 473 00:19:10,630 --> 00:19:08,900 and Blue Origin hasn't flown their new 474 00:19:12,460 --> 00:19:10,640 Glenn so so you're trying to predict 475 00:19:14,710 --> 00:19:12,470 based on what you have on contract and 476 00:19:16,210 --> 00:19:14,720 based on the market what to put in these 477 00:19:18,010 --> 00:19:16,220 announcements of opportunities so that 478 00:19:19,210 --> 00:19:18,020 the scientists can see what vehicles 479 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:19,220 they might be flying on so that's really 480 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:21,650 where our first entry point is in the 481 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:23,450 process and that's usually done by 482 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:24,890 Albert Sears group in the mission 483 00:19:28,900 --> 00:19:27,290 manager mission Management Group and so 484 00:19:30,220 --> 00:19:28,910 we start doing that and then as that 485 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:30,230 process works through they eventually 486 00:19:35,740 --> 00:19:33,290 down select they pick a spacecraft and 487 00:19:37,510 --> 00:19:35,750 then at that point we start working with 488 00:19:39,070 --> 00:19:37,520 the spacecraft more directly to pull 489 00:19:41,410 --> 00:19:39,080 together what the requirements might be 490 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:41,420 so that we can put a rocket out for bid 491 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:43,010 when you see requirements give me a 492 00:19:46,090 --> 00:19:44,330 general idea or so 493 00:19:47,290 --> 00:19:46,100 so like the interfaces between the 494 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:47,300 spacecraft and the launch people will 495 00:19:52,510 --> 00:19:49,970 say how big your spacecraft is X mass 496 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:52,520 mass right words mentions where it's 497 00:19:57,700 --> 00:19:54,730 going yeah it's going very peculiar 498 00:19:58,270 --> 00:19:57,710 purges or yeah the size can it fit in 499 00:20:02,320 --> 00:19:58,280 common 500 00:20:04,390 --> 00:20:02,330 have right right so we start gathering 501 00:20:06,130 --> 00:20:04,400 all that information with them letting 502 00:20:07,210 --> 00:20:06,140 them understand what rockets can provide 503 00:20:09,130 --> 00:20:07,220 and they're telling us what their 504 00:20:10,750 --> 00:20:09,140 spacecraft is supposed to do we help 505 00:20:13,540 --> 00:20:10,760 them sometimes with design iterations 506 00:20:14,830 --> 00:20:13,550 because they may not know exactly how to 507 00:20:16,030 --> 00:20:14,840 design something because a lot of them 508 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:16,040 have never been through the process 509 00:20:19,930 --> 00:20:17,570 before so we provide that stable 510 00:20:21,220 --> 00:20:19,940 interface for them so that so that we 511 00:20:23,710 --> 00:20:21,230 can give them the knowledge that we have 512 00:20:25,900 --> 00:20:23,720 so they go from that point where they're 513 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:25,910 telling us what they might want and then 514 00:20:29,770 --> 00:20:27,770 we take all the requirements we put them 515 00:20:32,590 --> 00:20:29,780 out for bid to the contractors that we 516 00:20:35,260 --> 00:20:32,600 have on this indefinite delivery 517 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:35,270 contract we put them out for bid bidders 518 00:20:39,850 --> 00:20:38,090 bid we go through a process six or eight 519 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:39,860 months to be able to select the right 520 00:20:44,710 --> 00:20:42,890 rocket and then we make that selection 521 00:20:47,380 --> 00:20:44,720 and then we work with them from that 522 00:20:49,090 --> 00:20:47,390 point which is usually about 24 to 30 523 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:49,100 months before their launch so that's 524 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:50,450 when they're coming through their design 525 00:20:54,550 --> 00:20:52,210 process and they're trying to finalize 526 00:20:56,170 --> 00:20:54,560 their designs so that they can I think 527 00:20:58,090 --> 00:20:56,180 it's seat at the CDR point normally if 528 00:20:59,290 --> 00:20:58,100 when we make that selection so they're 529 00:21:00,700 --> 00:20:59,300 working at that point to then start 530 00:21:02,470 --> 00:21:00,710 building their spacecraft and so it's 531 00:21:03,730 --> 00:21:02,480 really important they know what rocket 532 00:21:05,650 --> 00:21:03,740 they're going to be flying on so they 533 00:21:06,820 --> 00:21:05,660 make sure they encompass the exact right 534 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:06,830 environments that they're going to have 535 00:21:12,910 --> 00:21:08,930 and most of them are one-of-a-kind so 536 00:21:16,030 --> 00:21:12,920 it's it's truly like the first iteration 537 00:21:18,610 --> 00:21:16,040 of it so it's not like a communication 538 00:21:21,730 --> 00:21:18,620 bird words there's a production line so 539 00:21:23,830 --> 00:21:21,740 they they all are almost all unique 540 00:21:26,410 --> 00:21:23,840 other than goes and tea dress which is 541 00:21:29,260 --> 00:21:26,420 as you know close to a repeat mission as 542 00:21:32,410 --> 00:21:29,270 we get everything else is extremely 543 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:32,420 unique so how it fits or if it fits in 544 00:21:38,620 --> 00:21:35,570 in the fairing how it fits how are you 545 00:21:41,650 --> 00:21:38,630 going to purge it where the doors are 546 00:21:43,810 --> 00:21:41,660 located all of those are like you know 547 00:21:45,820 --> 00:21:43,820 we do it for the first time each each 548 00:21:47,260 --> 00:21:45,830 and every time but so that I mean that 549 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:47,270 also brings up another important 550 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:48,650 important point to interrupt the whole 551 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:51,890 process part of it is that because each 552 00:21:54,970 --> 00:21:53,810 one is unique and you know the timeline 553 00:21:56,530 --> 00:21:54,980 that we talked about five to eight years 554 00:21:58,060 --> 00:21:56,540 out some of these principle 555 00:21:59,560 --> 00:21:58,070 investigators have been working on the 556 00:22:01,870 --> 00:21:59,570 science for these missions their entire 557 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:01,880 entire time that they have started 558 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:03,770 through college and through their career 559 00:22:09,250 --> 00:22:05,930 so it could be 40 years yeah gravity 560 00:22:11,470 --> 00:22:09,260 probe be the guy working on it was 561 00:22:13,510 --> 00:22:11,480 it was literally 14 his whole life 562 00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:13,520 pretty much he had been working on the 563 00:22:18,220 --> 00:22:16,130 mission so so it's really for us it's 564 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:18,230 really important that we do a good job 565 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:20,570 of overseeing what's going on with the 566 00:22:23,650 --> 00:22:21,650 launch vehicle making sure that 567 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:23,660 spacecraft can integrate because you 568 00:22:27,190 --> 00:22:25,010 can't you can't afford to lose that 569 00:22:33,789 --> 00:22:27,200 mission as if it's not pressure enough 570 00:22:35,590 --> 00:22:33,799 to success for a launch this guy is does 571 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:35,600 it feel personal yeah when you think 572 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:37,850 about like hey you're in charge of a 573 00:22:40,570 --> 00:22:39,530 program that's trying to get this guy's 574 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:40,580 life work into space 575 00:22:45,700 --> 00:22:42,770 yes particular one was noteworthy for 576 00:22:49,450 --> 00:22:45,710 that reason and then also George Morrow 577 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:49,460 of Goddard used this analogy one time in 578 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:53,210 our off-site he said it's like we have a 579 00:22:59,409 --> 00:22:56,330 baby at Goddard and we've we've nurtured 580 00:23:02,049 --> 00:22:59,419 it but now it's time for us to give it 581 00:23:03,909 --> 00:23:02,059 up and we're nervous about that and 582 00:23:06,700 --> 00:23:03,919 we're handing it off to you and we need 583 00:23:10,659 --> 00:23:06,710 to know that you're gonna care for it 584 00:23:12,430 --> 00:23:10,669 like you know we did and and so that hit 585 00:23:16,120 --> 00:23:12,440 home it wasn't like it was lost on us 586 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:16,130 but just that an al analogy was very 587 00:23:23,020 --> 00:23:19,010 very tangible yes and I think it's 588 00:23:24,820 --> 00:23:23,030 stayed with us thanks George so so we 589 00:23:26,710 --> 00:23:24,830 mentioned Mars 2020 coming up here 590 00:23:28,270 --> 00:23:26,720 really soon so thinking about other 591 00:23:30,340 --> 00:23:28,280 babies you're gonna have hand it off to 592 00:23:31,930 --> 00:23:30,350 you or are in the process of taking what 593 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:31,940 are the ones you're excited about so 594 00:23:35,140 --> 00:23:33,650 obviously thinking a couple years out 595 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:35,150 what what are you looking at I think we 596 00:23:41,830 --> 00:23:38,690 have nine or ten in the next 18 months 597 00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:41,840 yeah yeah yeah we do maybe a little one 598 00:23:46,030 --> 00:23:43,370 to look forward to before all of those 599 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:46,040 big ones start is virgin orbit we've 600 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:48,410 been working with them for a while to 601 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:50,210 get a small launch vehicle capability in 602 00:23:53,740 --> 00:23:51,650 place we had rocket lab electron 603 00:23:55,630 --> 00:23:53,750 launched in December of last year that 604 00:23:58,060 --> 00:23:55,640 was that was the first government launch 605 00:24:00,010 --> 00:23:58,070 on an electron and that was it was 606 00:24:02,169 --> 00:24:00,020 really exciting for us it was really 607 00:24:03,700 --> 00:24:02,179 neat and so our next one would be Virgin 608 00:24:06,190 --> 00:24:03,710 orbit that is a rocket that's launched 609 00:24:07,539 --> 00:24:06,200 under an airplane and we have some coop 610 00:24:08,980 --> 00:24:07,549 sets on that to test that out so we're 611 00:24:11,039 --> 00:24:08,990 hoping to see that towards the end of 612 00:24:13,570 --> 00:24:11,049 this year as well sometime after icon 613 00:24:14,980 --> 00:24:13,580 for me I really I really am looking 614 00:24:17,020 --> 00:24:14,990 forward to March 2020 I don't want to 615 00:24:18,730 --> 00:24:17,030 beat that to death but it is really it 616 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:18,740 is really cool so I I just talked to 617 00:24:22,210 --> 00:24:20,090 someone on the phone about it and they 618 00:24:23,049 --> 00:24:22,220 said that the scientist or maybe not so 619 00:24:28,299 --> 00:24:23,059 it 620 00:24:31,090 --> 00:24:28,309 the helicopter interesting yeah but 621 00:24:32,980 --> 00:24:31,100 there was a whole report on NPR recently 622 00:24:34,629 --> 00:24:32,990 that all they focused on was a 623 00:24:36,519 --> 00:24:34,639 helicopter because it's so exciting and 624 00:24:39,129 --> 00:24:36,529 and it's it's really it'll be really 625 00:24:42,100 --> 00:24:39,139 neat well yeah just track the public 626 00:24:44,379 --> 00:24:42,110 interest with that when wanted you know 627 00:24:48,190 --> 00:24:44,389 it's up there and starts tooling around 628 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:48,200 there ran it'd be pretty cool other 629 00:24:53,889 --> 00:24:50,450 aspects are the missions that we've 630 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:53,899 worked on better you know still in the 631 00:24:59,109 --> 00:24:56,210 public eye and returning science and 632 00:25:01,810 --> 00:24:59,119 stuff we even had a you know someone in 633 00:25:05,769 --> 00:25:01,820 the organization in a meeting yesterday 634 00:25:07,570 --> 00:25:05,779 and she she talked about how excited she 635 00:25:09,700 --> 00:25:07,580 gets when she's listening to the radio 636 00:25:12,070 --> 00:25:09,710 or NPR and they start talking about like 637 00:25:13,629 --> 00:25:12,080 osiris-rex in' and she's like oh I 638 00:25:16,180 --> 00:25:13,639 remember that we launched that you know 639 00:25:18,460 --> 00:25:16,190 and it's it's about to you know it's a 640 00:25:20,769 --> 00:25:18,470 round venue and it's about to go in for 641 00:25:21,659 --> 00:25:20,779 the sample in about a year so it's those 642 00:25:24,730 --> 00:25:21,669 kinds of things 643 00:25:27,090 --> 00:25:24,740 Parker going to the Sun and being able 644 00:25:29,769 --> 00:25:27,100 to talk so when we have outreach 645 00:25:31,810 --> 00:25:29,779 opportunities those are the fun things 646 00:25:33,430 --> 00:25:31,820 people love planetaries and stuff but 647 00:25:36,070 --> 00:25:33,440 all of the exciting missions there's 648 00:25:38,100 --> 00:25:36,080 always something you know that excites 649 00:25:41,549 --> 00:25:38,110 the public about about the science 650 00:25:44,889 --> 00:25:41,559 Landsat some of the we've got a few 651 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:44,899 Earth observing coming either ocean or 652 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:47,570 or land those those are coming those are 653 00:25:52,779 --> 00:25:50,330 pretty popular too solar orbiter in 654 00:25:55,869 --> 00:25:52,789 February that's a international 655 00:25:57,669 --> 00:25:55,879 partnership that we have and so the u.s. 656 00:25:59,350 --> 00:25:57,679 provided the rocket and the European 657 00:26:00,639 --> 00:25:59,360 Space Agency is providing the spacecraft 658 00:26:02,019 --> 00:26:00,649 so that one's going to be pretty 659 00:26:03,340 --> 00:26:02,029 exciting we'll have a lot of visitors 660 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:03,350 here that they're going to see their 661 00:26:06,009 --> 00:26:04,610 spacecraft finally launch this one's 662 00:26:07,450 --> 00:26:06,019 been on contract for a really long time 663 00:26:08,529 --> 00:26:07,460 they've been working really hard on it 664 00:26:12,129 --> 00:26:08,539 and they're really looking forward to 665 00:26:14,590 --> 00:26:12,139 February's launch be neat as I as I 666 00:26:16,930 --> 00:26:14,600 think back on kind of the more recent 667 00:26:18,909 --> 00:26:16,940 history of rocketry and what looks like 668 00:26:21,279 --> 00:26:18,919 it's coming in the future the near 669 00:26:23,230 --> 00:26:21,289 future it seems like there's a huge 670 00:26:24,580 --> 00:26:23,240 shift in the landscape of available 671 00:26:26,470 --> 00:26:24,590 rockets 672 00:26:29,019 --> 00:26:26,480 obviously the launches themselves get 673 00:26:30,549 --> 00:26:29,029 people excited and it it feels like 674 00:26:31,990 --> 00:26:30,559 we're gonna have a very different pool 675 00:26:33,759 --> 00:26:32,000 of rockets here in the next couple years 676 00:26:36,580 --> 00:26:33,769 is that is that accurate and and how 677 00:26:39,850 --> 00:26:36,590 does that impact you all in your work 678 00:26:40,539 --> 00:26:39,860 it's very accurate in fact we're in our 679 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:40,549 on-ramp 680 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:44,330 period for our for our contract so every 681 00:26:51,250 --> 00:26:47,450 once a year we allow new bidders to come 682 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:51,260 in and join the contract okay they have 683 00:26:55,330 --> 00:26:53,690 to then bid for each and every mission 684 00:26:57,370 --> 00:26:55,340 so sure they're just getting the right 685 00:26:59,860 --> 00:26:57,380 to be on the contract at this point and 686 00:27:02,409 --> 00:26:59,870 there some years go by where there's 687 00:27:08,769 --> 00:27:02,419 nobody interested in joining we've got a 688 00:27:14,769 --> 00:27:08,779 record number yeah pretty amazing so 689 00:27:16,360 --> 00:27:14,779 that tells you those kinds of things are 690 00:27:17,649 --> 00:27:16,370 really exciting for me when it's like we 691 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:17,659 have a lot in the mix we can't talk 692 00:27:24,850 --> 00:27:19,210 about 693 00:27:26,649 --> 00:27:24,860 we're popular yeah so it's probably it's 694 00:27:27,940 --> 00:27:26,659 almost unprecedented in terms of how 695 00:27:30,700 --> 00:27:27,950 many new rockets are going to be out 696 00:27:32,649 --> 00:27:30,710 there in all different of the vehicle 697 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:32,659 classes to so you we talked about rocket 698 00:27:37,330 --> 00:27:35,330 lab we talked about virgin orbit you 699 00:27:38,799 --> 00:27:37,340 think about blue origins bringing on the 700 00:27:41,919 --> 00:27:38,809 new Glenn which is going to be a huge 701 00:27:43,269 --> 00:27:41,929 capability ula has had rockets for many 702 00:27:45,130 --> 00:27:43,279 years between Boeing and Lockheed 703 00:27:47,409 --> 00:27:45,140 they've got a new rocket coming online 704 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:47,419 Northrop Grumman has a new rocket coming 705 00:27:52,029 --> 00:27:50,090 online fire flies a new company that 706 00:27:53,230 --> 00:27:52,039 just took over the Delta 2 complex out 707 00:27:55,149 --> 00:27:53,240 at Vandenberg that's going to be 708 00:27:57,820 --> 00:27:55,159 launching rockets you have brand new 709 00:28:00,039 --> 00:27:57,830 ones and then incumbents that aren't 710 00:28:01,450 --> 00:28:00,049 changing there right right it's a pretty 711 00:28:02,740 --> 00:28:01,460 amazing collection of what we're gonna 712 00:28:04,180 --> 00:28:02,750 have now I'm not sure how many 713 00:28:05,620 --> 00:28:04,190 satellites are out there to be launching 714 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:05,630 all of these so we'll have to watch and 715 00:28:11,289 --> 00:28:08,690 see which which one actually makes it 716 00:28:14,799 --> 00:28:11,299 which ones actually make it sure yeah so 717 00:28:18,070 --> 00:28:14,809 is there is there growth for LSP beyond 718 00:28:21,330 --> 00:28:18,080 simply volume of throughput or is that 719 00:28:24,340 --> 00:28:21,340 really how LSP grows into the future 720 00:28:27,970 --> 00:28:24,350 that's a good question I think when we 721 00:28:30,039 --> 00:28:27,980 think about LSP classic LSP it's really 722 00:28:31,570 --> 00:28:30,049 and it still is the core of our business 723 00:28:33,310 --> 00:28:31,580 are the science missions I mean that's 724 00:28:36,460 --> 00:28:33,320 that's why we exist that's why we 725 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:36,470 started but the agency has expanded into 726 00:28:41,409 --> 00:28:38,450 so many other areas that are now using 727 00:28:42,639 --> 00:28:41,419 commercial rockets that it may not 728 00:28:44,919 --> 00:28:42,649 necessarily be the throughput of 729 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:44,929 missions that we by end to end but the 730 00:28:49,930 --> 00:28:46,610 throughput of the type of service that 731 00:28:50,230 --> 00:28:49,940 we provide the agency is growing so if 732 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:50,240 you 733 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:52,370 get the new Artemis program boots on the 734 00:28:58,840 --> 00:28:55,250 moon 2024 going to Mars we're right now 735 00:29:01,270 --> 00:28:58,850 in the throes of teaching people what 736 00:29:03,490 --> 00:29:01,280 LSP does who don't usually deal with LSB 737 00:29:05,020 --> 00:29:03,500 and don't know what we have to offer so 738 00:29:07,110 --> 00:29:05,030 that we can make sure that we provide 739 00:29:10,510 --> 00:29:07,120 some service for their launch vehicles 740 00:29:13,150 --> 00:29:10,520 so let me ask this question because when 741 00:29:16,060 --> 00:29:13,160 I I know pretty well what LSP does and 742 00:29:18,670 --> 00:29:16,070 when I heard Moon 2024 and saw some of 743 00:29:20,710 --> 00:29:18,680 the manifest imaging come in the plans 744 00:29:23,910 --> 00:29:20,720 I was like I think LSP is about to get 745 00:29:27,010 --> 00:29:23,920 busier did you did you feel similarly 746 00:29:28,620 --> 00:29:27,020 well I think we felt the way I hope 747 00:29:30,910 --> 00:29:28,630 we're going to get some of that work 748 00:29:32,770 --> 00:29:30,920 because they are purchasing them a 749 00:29:35,550 --> 00:29:32,780 different way than normal they're buying 750 00:29:37,450 --> 00:29:35,560 an end-to-end service where typically 751 00:29:39,010 --> 00:29:37,460 science will come to us with their 752 00:29:40,660 --> 00:29:39,020 spacecraft and then we'll go buy them a 753 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:40,670 launch vehicle in this case they're 754 00:29:45,580 --> 00:29:42,890 having the spacecraft portion of that 755 00:29:49,090 --> 00:29:45,590 buy the entire service and so what we 756 00:29:50,830 --> 00:29:49,100 are trying to manage is how do we still 757 00:29:52,630 --> 00:29:50,840 provide our mission assurance on a 758 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:52,640 rocket that is being bought a different 759 00:29:55,630 --> 00:29:53,090 way 760 00:29:56,890 --> 00:29:55,640 and so so we do actually we are a little 761 00:29:59,170 --> 00:29:56,900 bit concerned we had a strategic 762 00:30:01,660 --> 00:29:59,180 off-site with management in May and we 763 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:01,670 talked about how busy we're getting and 764 00:30:06,310 --> 00:30:03,290 we don't really want to grow the 765 00:30:07,810 --> 00:30:06,320 organization in size we'd rather become 766 00:30:10,330 --> 00:30:07,820 more efficient at things and then use 767 00:30:12,070 --> 00:30:10,340 the resources that we have to be able to 768 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:12,080 do the work on the new programs but 769 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:13,730 there is a there's a ton of work I'd say 770 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:16,010 like you said that manifest the number 771 00:30:19,420 --> 00:30:17,330 of commercial rockets on there is 772 00:30:22,030 --> 00:30:19,430 incredible and they're all going to be 773 00:30:24,220 --> 00:30:22,040 new rockets the only one right now that 774 00:30:25,750 --> 00:30:24,230 has flown really as the as the Falcon 775 00:30:27,580 --> 00:30:25,760 Heavy right and it's only phone three 776 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:27,590 times and there are no other rockets 777 00:30:30,730 --> 00:30:29,330 that are capable of taking these big 778 00:30:33,190 --> 00:30:30,740 masses to the moon right now other than 779 00:30:35,650 --> 00:30:33,200 SLS of course right but if there's one 780 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:35,660 group that has the expertise and 781 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:38,930 knowledge of either you know the current 782 00:30:44,470 --> 00:30:42,770 rockets or you know the derivatives it's 783 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:44,480 us so we're a capability that should 784 00:30:49,390 --> 00:30:46,850 should be used and should be a big part 785 00:30:52,930 --> 00:30:49,400 of it in our minds but we do have to 786 00:30:55,150 --> 00:30:52,940 balance that work with you know the 787 00:30:59,500 --> 00:30:55,160 science which is why we're really here 788 00:31:02,080 --> 00:30:59,510 right cool so as you both individually 789 00:31:03,490 --> 00:31:02,090 look to the future is there is there 790 00:31:10,750 --> 00:31:03,500 something else is there another love 791 00:31:13,330 --> 00:31:10,760 LUP is there again oh boy then maybe 792 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:13,340 it's retirement time I don't know one of 793 00:31:17,590 --> 00:31:14,930 the things that comes up a lot and now 794 00:31:21,790 --> 00:31:17,600 in these strategic off sites that we 795 00:31:25,030 --> 00:31:21,800 have is because a large majority of the 796 00:31:28,450 --> 00:31:25,040 management within LSP all started 797 00:31:31,930 --> 00:31:28,460 together 20 years ago we're all close to 798 00:31:34,690 --> 00:31:31,940 retirement age together and so the 799 00:31:37,300 --> 00:31:34,700 discussion quickly turns to we can't 800 00:31:39,370 --> 00:31:37,310 talk about when people are going but 801 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:39,380 it's definitely something that's on the 802 00:31:46,900 --> 00:31:43,490 agenda of succession planning because we 803 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:46,910 are all able in the next five years and 804 00:31:52,930 --> 00:31:49,730 if there's a mass exodus what are we 805 00:31:57,190 --> 00:31:52,940 leaving behind are we are we leaving and 806 00:31:59,290 --> 00:31:57,200 and educating the people behind us well 807 00:32:02,530 --> 00:31:59,300 enough to for them to take our place and 808 00:32:06,790 --> 00:32:02,540 keep the program running like it is so 809 00:32:09,190 --> 00:32:06,800 that's that's a constant agenda item at 810 00:32:10,990 --> 00:32:09,200 our meetings now I honestly think I have 811 00:32:12,700 --> 00:32:11,000 like the best job in the agency and I 812 00:32:14,020 --> 00:32:12,710 don't I don't see why you would want to 813 00:32:16,210 --> 00:32:14,030 go anywhere else I mean where else can 814 00:32:17,590 --> 00:32:16,220 you work with all the science missions 815 00:32:19,750 --> 00:32:17,600 all the customers that we have all the 816 00:32:22,390 --> 00:32:19,760 people that we interact with the NRO the 817 00:32:25,090 --> 00:32:22,400 Air Force everybody I'm every day is a 818 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:25,100 challenge so I I see it as well sometime 819 00:32:29,350 --> 00:32:26,810 in that five years maybe there's some 820 00:32:31,060 --> 00:32:29,360 changes in LSP but we'll see I've been 821 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:31,070 in e lv my whole career I'm certainly 822 00:32:42,430 --> 00:32:38,090 not going to change I'm not gonna step 823 00:32:43,930 --> 00:32:42,440 out of the way well very good I think 824 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:43,940 you both very much obviously you guys 825 00:32:48,010 --> 00:32:46,250 put in a ton of time and effort I'm sure 826 00:32:50,290 --> 00:32:48,020 blood sweat and tears um 827 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:50,300 so good luck the next 18 months or so 828 00:32:55,300 --> 00:32:52,130 especially obviously we'll be keeping a 829 00:32:57,460 --> 00:32:55,310 close eye on your work as new new and 830 00:32:59,380 --> 00:32:57,470 improved rockets take flight all right 831 00:33:01,780 --> 00:32:59,390 sounds great thank you thanks for having 832 00:33:06,140 --> 00:33:04,130 I'm Joshua Santora and that's our show 833 00:33:08,630 --> 00:33:06,150 thanks for stopping by the rocket ranch 834 00:33:11,060 --> 00:33:08,640 and special thanks to our guests Amanda 835 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:11,070 Miscavige and Chuck Duvall to learn more 836 00:33:15,890 --> 00:33:14,010 about LSP visit nasa.gov slash launch 837 00:33:17,300 --> 00:33:15,900 services and to learn more about 838 00:33:20,290 --> 00:33:17,310 everything going on at the Kennedy Space 839 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:20,300 Center go to nasa.gov slash Kennedy 840 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:22,650 check out NASA's other podcasts to learn 841 00:33:26,510 --> 00:33:23,850 more about what's happening at all of 842 00:33:28,670 --> 00:33:26,520 our centers at nasa.gov slash podcasts a 843 00:33:30,860 --> 00:33:28,680 special shout out to our producer John 844 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:30,870 Sackman our Selman Lorne may 3 a 845 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:33,450 determine else tone and special thanks 846 00:33:37,940 --> 00:33:35,850 to Mary McLaughlin and remember on the 847 00:33:39,030 --> 00:33:37,950 rocket ranch even the sky isn't the